It was stated over an hour ago that the 4 year entry level deal change was misinformed and was retracted. Also the new CBA would be at least 6 years, still no further details. I never heard anything about the AHL players counting to the salary cap but I can see players like wade redden who were on 1 way deals but got demoted to bury there salary may be counting towards the cap as that is the example given on the radio.

After spending decades in sales and negotiating, I can tell you "lowballing" someone is about the worst negotiating tactic you can employ.

If you had your house on the market and were asking $225,000 when the established market value was around $200,000 and I came in with an offer of $125,000, you would walk away shaking your head.

That's what happened here.

Both sides want to do away with the practise of burying NHL salaries in the AHL.

The players hate it because someone like Redden could still be a productive NHL player.

And the owners, generally, hate it because it gives rich teams an advantage not predicted in the CBA.

Yeah I agree with that as well but the original comment sounded as though all 2 way contracts would count to the cap as well. Someone like paajarvi or hartihymen would count to the NHL cap even though they play in the AHL

It's pretty clear now that hockey will start up again in November. The question is 2012 or 2013?

It's just an offer to get the ball rolling we still have to hear what the PA has to say about it.

Sure. And if the ball doesn't roll in November this won't end until heads roll next November.

Hmmm, the players were at 57 in the last CBA and the owners lowball at 43, then come back to 50 with this offer. Halfway....Easy Peasy, right?

Gotta do something about contract length from the owners' perspective as well, as well as free agency eligibility. Maybe these requirements can be blunted somewhat with an acceptance of 50% of revenues by the players.

Just get it done, you fools.

so what exactly did the NHL have to start with? If they start with the latest offer, then what do they have to give up. Imagine going in and paying ticket price on a new car?

Maybe but if they really want to be stubborn we can lose hockey forever or until a new hockey organization starts up. Nothing says there must be hockey by any time frame.

If the players don't take the 50/50 offer, things could get ugly quick and fan support would go to the owners.

But with the advent of the jillion year contract along-side guaranteed contracts it was the only way teams could fix mistakes without it affecting their Cap situation.

My alternative would be an option to buy out a player at full price of contract with no Cap hit. But it's a silly thing for the players to complain about, IMO. Guys like Redden are making 100% of their salary instead of being bought out for pennies on the dollar.

Be happy the contract is guaranteed and take the money. (Just an Opinion)

I'm already on the Owner's side, but yeah. Players will hear it from fans the minute this offer is rejected, even if they have the right to counter propose an offer.

correction.....

The worst tactic is not advertising your asking price. Without an asking price, a consumer would be utterly stupid to offer fair market value, unless you are in to making people who spend decades in sales and negotiating very, very rich. You speak from a vendor point of view sir, and the league and the cans are the consumers.

maybe the KHL is recognized as a professional league and he will be "Gretzky'd" out of his trophy.

I hate to agree with DSF but the initial 'offer' by the owners was a sick joke, which poisoned the negotiations from the beginning. Obviously you are going to understate your ultimate position, but 43% of HRR? 5 year entry level contracts when the average career is five years? An additional five years as an RFA with no arbitration? 10 years until FA? Rollbacks on the contracts owners signed supposedly in good faith?

The NHLPA passive aggressive response was really the only choice they had. Now THIS appears to be a legitimate proposal. Apparently to get straight to 50% much of the contract money will be deferred, so we will have to see how that works. Deferred for how long? What about interest? Also we will need details on how the AHL salaries will included, as that could be a deal breaker if it isn't just a way or preventing circumventing the cap as with Redden.

The NHLPA must put the offer under a microscope, confer with the players and return with a counteroffer. If there are no hidden bombs in the NHL offer than I suspect they can reach an agreement in time to start on Nov. 2. Still too early to say I guess but if the NHL had opened at 47% or 48% and not included the outrageous demands on player freedom we would be talking about the Oilers' start to the season instead of wondering whether there will be one.

I recall posting, when the offer was made, that it was stupid and I got blasted. Suddenly everyone agrees huh?

Yer stoopid

I'm rubber and your glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you!

And Jeter is still overrated ;) Or was he underrated? Dammit... I can't remember the argument and now my joke is less funny :(

Nonsense.

The offer today cuts the players share of HRR from 57 to to 50 percent.

When you do the math, the first offer cut the players share by 25 percent.

Todays offer cuts the players share by 12 percent.

Walk into any car dealership and offer 25 percent off sticker and they'll laugh you out of the showroom.

This.

Exactly.

No chance.

None at all.

I don't disagree but the GM who made the mistake should have to wear it.

See Horcoff, Shawn for reference.

Yeah but what good is it for the players or the owners, really? Not being able to "fix" mistakes means the owners have less incentive to overpay the players and less flexibility in the system.

Neither should "want" this aspect of the CBA and yet both appear to do exactly that.

Wacky.

The common good is that it makes incompetent GM's pay for their mistakes.

I'm all for that and I expect most team and players would agree.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

More on NHL offer: calls for 2012-13 salary cap of $59.9 million but teams can go over up to $70.2 million in Year 1 as part of transition

I agree. This was an opener, but the deal is far from done. I don't see howanybody can see that this is a good deal if you put yourself in the players shoes. If you take the scales of economy out of the equation, and apply these numbers to your own personal situation, would you take the deal? I kow that I wouldn't, especially after I give an effective 25% of my salary to meet the employers current agreement.