WITH REGARDS TO THE ARENA

Wanye
September 13 2012 11:37AM

Big ups to our main man @21bam21 for sending us the classic video above.

Bad news just seems to be raining down on the OilersNation doesn't it? First the lockout dominates our every waking thought as our beloved sport is put in jeopardy by the very same rich people who make their living from us enjoying our beloved sport. Then news that Randy Jackson isn't leaving American Idol after all. Then news yesterday of an alarming exchange between Daryl Katz and City Council.

Good times.

MYTHS

Let's all take a deep breath and calm down. 99% of what we are witnessing is theatre designed to create fear among us average folk and force the government's hand into publicly funding a greater share of a private-public partnership.

Read that again if you need to have it sink in: people who are experienced at this sort of thing are playing out drama designed to freak you out and make demands of government. There is no risk of the arena not being built and the Oilers leaving town.

Zero.

Everyone involved knows that this arena is going to get built. Make no mistake. They just want someone else to pay for it and are willing to stir us all up to sway public opinion. This is a play that was designed a long time ago and has been very effective time and time again. 

The City wants other governments to pay for this thing. Katz wants anyone but Katz Co to pay for it. The Feds don't want to pay for anything for fear it will lead to multiple demands for federal money for arenas in other cities. Fans just want to line up to pay $200 for a ticket to watch Dubnyk and Khabibulin battle it out for King Shit of the Worst Goaltending tandem in the league.

Good times.

MYTH: IF GOV'T AND KATZ DON'T HAVE THE $ ITS OVER

This is just utter nonsense. Companies and individuals with large amounts of capital would be all over putting in $100 million into funding the current gap. Think that a billionaire can't raise 100 million at the drop of a hat? Please. We guarantee that the Katz Group is appoached on the regular by companies looking to participate in the project.

Hell we saw representatives from the AEG at the Art Gallery for the launch of the arena designs at many months ago. They make millions of dollars every year by funding arenas that can't come up with the money from any other source. And they charge a boatload to do it. They have been hanging around since day one and aren't the only company that would jump at the chance to fund a project of this size in an economy as hot as Alberta.

If you are interested in an arena at a reasonable price you will want to avoid private funds which will want a much higher percentage return on their money thus jacking up the cost considerably. You might not believe it - but it is absolute truth.

No entity can borrow money at a lower rate of interest than a government. A government owned arena or some sort of partnership is the cheapest if a government body borrows the money at government rates and makes a return on the money they borrow.

MYTH: THE OILERS COULD LEAVE TOWN

The US is going through a generational recession at the moment in case anyone cares to look. Cities in the US are experiencing double digit unemployment, social unrest and bleak prospects for the immediate future. If you want to line up the teams that need to be relocated the Oil are like 25th out of 30th. 

One of the main reasons that the NHL is going to war over expenses (though they lack the PR sense to discuss it) is that the US economy is in dire trouble and there are several teams on life support. North American cities are splitting into haves and have nots and Professional Sports are exposed to a tremendous amount of risk as a result.

A strong market like Edmonton is not going to be disrupted no matter what nonsense is being thrown around in the media.

Read that again if you need to have it sink in: there is ZERO risk the Oilers are leaving town if they don't get a new arena. Zero.

EXPERT ANALYSIS

What we are witnessing here folks is theatre, pure and simple by people who are used to putting on this sort of play. Katz has more than the ability to put in the $100 million himself, or raise the capital with a couple well timed phone calls. Governments routinely split costs of publicly owned facilities like this and at the same time private money bangs these things out all over the world.

And the quickest way to get the deal done is turn up public pressure to 1000 until someone cracks and the thing gets built.

Don't let politicians, rich people or the media scare you. It is all a show designed to get a rise out of us all and everyone freaking out and blogging, tweeting and screaming their heads off is playing right into their practiced plans. Whether it's through a per ticket surcharge, $9 beers or tax increases you are paying your portion of the arena whether you like it or not. And odds are you won't even notice.

It's a similar situation over in the NHL-NHLPA war too. It's a shame that the average joe is the only one put out by any of these battles and picks up the tab for the entire thing anyways.

But that's a different conversation.

Mark this down: the arena will be funded and the first shovel will be in the ground in the Spring. This is all BS.

BELIEVE THAT

09049f03ecb006ab29372206f2a88f75
Blog so hard motherf**ckers try and find me. Email me at wanyegretz@gmail.com or tweet me @wanyegretz provided it is about Jordan Eberle or babes.
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#1 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
September 13 2012, 11:56AM
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Wanye is the voice of reason? WTF i say...WTF

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#2 geoilersgist
September 13 2012, 11:56AM
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FIST

Fail....#OmarkSadFace

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#3 Rick
September 13 2012, 11:58AM
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I am less concerned about the arena being built than I am what the actual results may end up being.

My faith in Katz being the right guy for a project that means so much for the city has been shaken and there is no do over here.

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#4 Gerald R. Ford
September 13 2012, 12:09PM
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So tired of this posturing and el toro poo poo. The most maddening thing about this entire mess is, in the time that it takes to convince everyone to spend x amount of money on the project, it's already increased to x + 5%. It's a never-ending cycle of self-inflicted inflation.

OPPOSITE OF SQUEEEEEEEEEE!

"No one said it would be easy, but no one said it'd be this hard." -Sheryl Crow

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#5 bdiddy18
September 13 2012, 12:27PM
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WANYE FOR MAYOR!

except I don't think "Deez Nuts" will do well instead of "no comment"

wake me up when they start playing and when they put a shovel to the ground on this building... till then what channel is that women's lingerie football on again?

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#7 Jonathan Willis
September 13 2012, 12:29PM
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And Wanye nails it.

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#8 book¡e
September 13 2012, 12:38PM
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Wanye is right about a few things. First,the arena will be built. Second, the Oilers will not move.

However, I can tell you that the councilors for the City that have supported this thing are pissed off at how Katz has approached this.

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#9 ubermiguel
September 13 2012, 12:41PM
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Wanye, why would Katz be wasting his time with the City if there is private capital available? Face it, an arena is a bad business venture, no smart business man (that didn't own a hockey team) would build one. It's a great thing for Edmonton's city core and general image, but it's not going to turn a profit.

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#10 Stone Hands McOsta
September 13 2012, 01:16PM
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Preach!

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#12 Wayne
September 13 2012, 01:23PM
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@Jonathan Willis

@ Jonathan Willis: I agree! I live here in Lancaster, Pa in the USA, and let me tell you, Wanye...you are 110% correct! There are quite a few teams here in the US that just don't belong. Been a life long Oilers fan since Elementary school, aka...the Dynasty years. all this posturing is nonsense.

love the blogs! Go Oilers from PA!! (I hate the Penguins and Flyers)

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#13 Oiltimer
September 13 2012, 01:31PM
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Really good article ... too bad we can't get all our information with this panache. No new facts but reassurance given with style that most couldn't get with 10X the words.

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#14 admiralmark
September 13 2012, 01:33PM
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This may all very well be true.. And i believe you are mostly correct here. But this latest shot across the bow came from Katz and if his desired effect was to get more public funding I think its an epic fail. He has with this move most definitely swayed public opinion in a negative direction as it pertains to his image. And that cannot help in getting public funding... can it?

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#15 baggedmilk
September 13 2012, 01:38PM
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Wanye know English? Hmmm...

P.s. @OilersNation on Twitter.

#Totally

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#16 vetinari
September 13 2012, 01:56PM
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I like new arenas as much as the next guy, but didn't Katz think that somebody would notice that his management team just handed out some major moola for extensions for Hall and Eb's, and that the average tax payer might assume that he'd have a few extra million dollars kicking around his couch cushions to fund an arena privately? Especially at a time when he's not actually paying his team to play hockey? And that if he wants to threaten to move the team, another team like the Phoenix Coyotes would likely be relocated here at the drop of a hat?

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#17 David S
September 13 2012, 02:14PM
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Wanye wrote:

Any good investment is a better investment if you get the money at a cheaper rate. In an economy like Alberta's this is a tremendous investment and will turn a profit over the lifespan of the building.

If you get the money at a cheaper (government) rate it turns a bigger profit.

WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THIS????

#YELLING

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#18 David S
September 13 2012, 02:15PM
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vetinari wrote:

I like new arenas as much as the next guy, but didn't Katz think that somebody would notice that his management team just handed out some major moola for extensions for Hall and Eb's, and that the average tax payer might assume that he'd have a few extra million dollars kicking around his couch cushions to fund an arena privately? Especially at a time when he's not actually paying his team to play hockey? And that if he wants to threaten to move the team, another team like the Phoenix Coyotes would likely be relocated here at the drop of a hat?

So you didn't actually read the article, right?

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#19 ubermiguel
September 13 2012, 02:16PM
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Wanye wrote:

Any good investment is a better investment if you get the money at a cheaper rate. In an economy like Alberta's this is a tremendous investment and will turn a profit over the lifespan of the building.

If you get the money at a cheaper (government) rate it turns a bigger profit.

All true.

Why is Katz concerned about the ROI the missing $100 million that someone else is providing though? Oh right, he wants the profits from that.

Also I haven't heard any deep pockets in the media saying "if the province isn't on board here's a wheelbarrow full of money." They aren't there.

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#20 Rick
September 13 2012, 02:26PM
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@ubermiguel

Do you actually believe that Katz is open to taking on partners - and splitting the potential windfall - on this venture?

I seem to recall a few of the EIG being interested in staying on when Katz first took over the team but instead they were summarily kicked to the curb for their efforts.

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#21 David S
September 13 2012, 02:41PM
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Katz gets the arena profits and the city gets the tax revenue from the arena and surrounding development, conservatively estimated at somewhere around $1.6 BILLION over the life of the project.

I'm still not sure what the problem is.

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#22 vetinari
September 13 2012, 02:46PM
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David S wrote:

So you didn't actually read the article, right?

@ David - Now why would I read the article? ;)

Or...

I did read the article and maybe the point is that when each side (Katz v. government) assesses the other for who should pay the extra $100M, government may push back and point to things like I mentioned in the above post. And although everyone knows that Katz won't move the team, in case it even gets implied or threatened, there are other considerations beyond those mentioned in the article that will be used to counter such a threat (such as another team getting relocated here).

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#23 ubermiguel
September 13 2012, 03:09PM
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David S wrote:

Katz gets the arena profits and the city gets the tax revenue from the arena and surrounding development, conservatively estimated at somewhere around $1.6 BILLION over the life of the project.

I'm still not sure what the problem is.

Because the logic behind CRLs is weak. A new hockey rink, hotel, casino etc brings in revenue and taxes only so far as it takes revenue and taxes away from other hockey rinks, hotels, casinos, etc.

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#24 FootballJimmy
September 13 2012, 03:10PM
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First, he built a website from popsicle sticks, glue, and sweat (mostly bingofuel's, I believe).

Then he told us that Comrie was coming back, and even though others laughed in his face, he was eventually proven right.

Now, today, Wanye has given us a calm, reassuring voice of reason in this perfect storm of lockout-dread and arena/relocation panic.

Thank-you, Wanye, thank you.

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#27 DieHard
September 13 2012, 03:46PM
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vetinari wrote:

@ David - Now why would I read the article? ;)

Or...

I did read the article and maybe the point is that when each side (Katz v. government) assesses the other for who should pay the extra $100M, government may push back and point to things like I mentioned in the above post. And although everyone knows that Katz won't move the team, in case it even gets implied or threatened, there are other considerations beyond those mentioned in the article that will be used to counter such a threat (such as another team getting relocated here).

So, Katz and the Oilers leave. But, another team from the USA is relocated to Edmonton. And exactly who are the new owners? And is he or are they Billionaires? Just asking.

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#29 Word
September 13 2012, 04:11PM
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When I saw the title of that first video clip I thought this was going to be an article about how Sam Gangnam isn't a legit #2 centre.

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#30 KenL
September 13 2012, 04:13PM
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The Katz Group must be taking lessons in negotiation and PR from Peter Pocklington. At least Pocklington faced the media from time to time. Katz just seems to content to hide in his Batcave.

Whether one agrees with the City or not, at least their people has been able to explain their position. While the Mayor has been making the interview rounds with various media outlets, the leader of the Katz Group is nowhere to be found.

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#31 BK
September 13 2012, 04:33PM
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How many times can one man watch that music video?!?!

36 and counting. It's like crack for your eyes and ears! Not good for you, but must have more!

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#33 mclea
September 13 2012, 04:46PM
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"We guarantee that the Katz Group is appoached on the regular by companies looking to participate in the project."

This is insane. Trying to make money off an arena in a small city is a fool's game, which is why nobody does it. If building an arena is the money maker you say it is, Katz would have just built it himself 5 years ago. But he hasn't, so it isn't.

$450MM up-front is a huge investment for a company that generates $100MM in revenue and a fraction of that in free cash flow to service the debt. You can make a go of it you're MLSE and you have a sports monopoly in a city of 6.5MM and two major tenants, but not if you're Katz in a city of 1MM with a competing arena. Bringing in new investors isn't going to increase your top line, so Katz would have to give up a huge chunk of the revenue to bring somebody else in - which he is clearly unwilling to do.

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#34 David S
September 13 2012, 05:16PM
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ubermiguel wrote:

Because the logic behind CRLs is weak. A new hockey rink, hotel, casino etc brings in revenue and taxes only so far as it takes revenue and taxes away from other hockey rinks, hotels, casinos, etc.

No. This assumes a closed economy that doesn't account for new influx of either people or businesses. It's a false assumption that arena haters have been pimping for a while now. It also(conveniently) ignores the fact that urban development spurs additional development if done properly - see Calgary.

Fact is, CRL's work. I've personally seen the results in another city and I can tell you new development stimulated by a CRL and an "open for business" city council did NOT simply migrate development from another part of the city. Development came from an influx of new investment which would not have simply chosen to locate elsewhere. Of course, alot of it has to do with re-purposing under-used or under-developed parcels of land, which the proposed arena distric is a prime example of.

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#35 Wanyes bastard child
September 13 2012, 05:53PM
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BK wrote:

How many times can one man watch that music video?!?!

36 and counting. It's like crack for your eyes and ears! Not good for you, but must have more!

I'm at 4 times, but i've only been home for an hour...

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#36 ubermiguel
September 13 2012, 06:20PM
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David S wrote:

No. This assumes a closed economy that doesn't account for new influx of either people or businesses. It's a false assumption that arena haters have been pimping for a while now. It also(conveniently) ignores the fact that urban development spurs additional development if done properly - see Calgary.

Fact is, CRL's work. I've personally seen the results in another city and I can tell you new development stimulated by a CRL and an "open for business" city council did NOT simply migrate development from another part of the city. Development came from an influx of new investment which would not have simply chosen to locate elsewhere. Of course, alot of it has to do with re-purposing under-used or under-developed parcels of land, which the proposed arena distric is a prime example of.

By bringing up the idea of an "influx" of money you understand that the rink etc is simply going to compete for a limited pool of money in the economy.

The "influx" might be from other parts of the city but it would more likely be coming from Calgary, Red Deer or Leduc. The province is not going to give away $100 million to move tax revenue from Calgary to Edmonton.

I have seen no suggestion that a new rink will steal money (e.g.: corporate head offices) from Toronto, Montreal or Houston.

I don't mind an "open for business" city council. But I would prefer a business model where the city's profit is commensurate with the investment made and not dependant on a specious CRL with unexamined assumptions about where the influx of revenue is really coming from.

If you want to generate revenue, spend your money on more refining capacity.

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#37 ubermiguel
September 13 2012, 06:35PM
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Wanye wrote:

So in the absence of the local or national media telling you that companies exist providing capital you don't believe in them?

They exist my man. Even private money means borrowed money. Lenders are everywhere for any sum of money. It's the interest rate of return you to worry about.

I know there are lenders out there who will front Katz the cash...but just because a methhead can get a payday loan it doesn't mean it's a good business deal.

In our media saturated world, on a topic that has both business and sports media taking an interest I would expect to hear something about some real private capital wanting on-board, but there's nada.

Point me to a tweet, blog post, newspaper article or public bathroom graffiti that says a friend of a friend of a friend saw Richard Branson and Robert Kraft having secret meeting with Katz about building a rink.

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#38 Chaz
September 13 2012, 06:50PM
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What I don't like about this is how the Katz group seems to know that a $450 million dollar arena won't be "Iconic" enough for Edmontonians. Really?!?! This coming from the guy who felt it necessary to build that $20 million eyesore of a house that encroaches on our River Valley. I'm an Edmontonian. I like simple, attractive, and classic architecture that is not overly gaudy and pretentious. Everything that Katz's Valleyview "Making up for some type of shortcoming" house is not. Maybe they should actually engage the public to see what we want. Leave the Gold platted bidets out of the design!

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#39 David S
September 13 2012, 06:56PM
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ubermiguel wrote:

I know there are lenders out there who will front Katz the cash...but just because a methhead can get a payday loan it doesn't mean it's a good business deal.

In our media saturated world, on a topic that has both business and sports media taking an interest I would expect to hear something about some real private capital wanting on-board, but there's nada.

Point me to a tweet, blog post, newspaper article or public bathroom graffiti that says a friend of a friend of a friend saw Richard Branson and Robert Kraft having secret meeting with Katz about building a rink.

Dude. I've got nothing against you but your assumptions about social media transparency and open disclosure are either naive or extremely short-sighted.

A guy like Katz has bankers like that on speed-dial. Finance deals are brokered behind closed doors all the time, and not surprisingly, nobody talks about it. The fact that he hasn't accessed them speaks to the reality that he believes he can finance his $100M contribution using the city's far better lending rates. In fact, this deal may only be feasible for him by using those rates. It's a Private-Public-Partnership or PPP.

I know Wanye comes off like sort of a goof around here but I can vouch for the fact he's actually a pretty bright business guy. You'd be wise to take him a bit more seriously.

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#40 David S
September 13 2012, 06:59PM
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Chaz wrote:

What I don't like about this is how the Katz group seems to know that a $450 million dollar arena won't be "Iconic" enough for Edmontonians. Really?!?! This coming from the guy who felt it necessary to build that $20 million eyesore of a house that encroaches on our River Valley. I'm an Edmontonian. I like simple, attractive, and classic architecture that is not overly gaudy and pretentious. Everything that Katz's Valleyview "Making up for some type of shortcoming" house is not. Maybe they should actually engage the public to see what we want. Leave the Gold platted bidets out of the design!

The house he grew up in wasn't too shabby either. Just because you don't understand the world these people live in doesn't mean they're any less relevant. Next time you're in Calgary I suggest you take a trip just outside west of the city limits in Bankside. There's Katz-level mansions as far as the eye can see. Being wealthy isn't a crime. In fact, you'd be surprised to know many Edmontonians aspire aspire to it.

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#41 David S
September 13 2012, 07:07PM
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ubermiguel wrote:

By bringing up the idea of an "influx" of money you understand that the rink etc is simply going to compete for a limited pool of money in the economy.

The "influx" might be from other parts of the city but it would more likely be coming from Calgary, Red Deer or Leduc. The province is not going to give away $100 million to move tax revenue from Calgary to Edmonton.

I have seen no suggestion that a new rink will steal money (e.g.: corporate head offices) from Toronto, Montreal or Houston.

I don't mind an "open for business" city council. But I would prefer a business model where the city's profit is commensurate with the investment made and not dependant on a specious CRL with unexamined assumptions about where the influx of revenue is really coming from.

If you want to generate revenue, spend your money on more refining capacity.

The (false) knock about CRL's is that it just shifts local investment - assuming a closed economy, which doesn't exist.

Let's not muddy the waters here by going outside that (flawed) assumption's scope.

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#42 David S
September 13 2012, 07:13PM
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Chaz wrote:

What I don't like about this is how the Katz group seems to know that a $450 million dollar arena won't be "Iconic" enough for Edmontonians. Really?!?! This coming from the guy who felt it necessary to build that $20 million eyesore of a house that encroaches on our River Valley. I'm an Edmontonian. I like simple, attractive, and classic architecture that is not overly gaudy and pretentious. Everything that Katz's Valleyview "Making up for some type of shortcoming" house is not. Maybe they should actually engage the public to see what we want. Leave the Gold platted bidets out of the design!

Actually, the city is pushing the "iconic" card for obvious reasons:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/Staples+Katz+Group+city+council+must+avoid+miserable/7239517/story.html

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#43 Fatbob24
September 13 2012, 07:25PM
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That video was awesome! it made up for the fact i had to read another article about an arena,instead of an article about how excited Wanye is about Jordan's new hair style at pre-season practice.

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#44 book¡e
September 13 2012, 07:27PM
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Word wrote:

When I saw the title of that first video clip I thought this was going to be an article about how Sam Gangnam isn't a legit #2 centre.

Seriously, how does this not have 100 props already?

Seriously?

Com'n people, pay attention - this was brilliant. I can't believe that I wasn't the one to say it.

Edit: YOu see, its like Gagner, but it's spelt wrong - the video is called Gangnam...

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#45 DSF
September 13 2012, 07:52PM
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ubermiguel wrote:

By bringing up the idea of an "influx" of money you understand that the rink etc is simply going to compete for a limited pool of money in the economy.

The "influx" might be from other parts of the city but it would more likely be coming from Calgary, Red Deer or Leduc. The province is not going to give away $100 million to move tax revenue from Calgary to Edmonton.

I have seen no suggestion that a new rink will steal money (e.g.: corporate head offices) from Toronto, Montreal or Houston.

I don't mind an "open for business" city council. But I would prefer a business model where the city's profit is commensurate with the investment made and not dependant on a specious CRL with unexamined assumptions about where the influx of revenue is really coming from.

If you want to generate revenue, spend your money on more refining capacity.

So, what you're saying is you would give up the Oilers for more refining capacity.

Maybe Oiler Nation will have to take a turn toward the petrochemical industry.

Should be riveting.

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#46 Chaz
September 13 2012, 08:28PM
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David S wrote:

The house he grew up in wasn't too shabby either. Just because you don't understand the world these people live in doesn't mean they're any less relevant. Next time you're in Calgary I suggest you take a trip just outside west of the city limits in Bankside. There's Katz-level mansions as far as the eye can see. Being wealthy isn't a crime. In fact, you'd be surprised to know many Edmontonians aspire aspire to it.

I actually do understand the world 'they' live in because I grew up in the same neighborhood. Not everyone with money feels the need to flaunt it like he does, and I don't think the average Edmontonian feels the need to break the bank in constructing this arena. I aspire to be wealthy too, but I prefer my wealthy guys modest and down to earth a la Warren Buffet vs garish and tacky like Donald Trump. He lives in our World, and if he wants his arena built in that World with our money maybe a reality check is in order in terms of the design. If you can't build something great with half a billion dollars, somthing ain't right.

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#47 David S
September 13 2012, 08:49PM
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Chaz wrote:

I actually do understand the world 'they' live in because I grew up in the same neighborhood. Not everyone with money feels the need to flaunt it like he does, and I don't think the average Edmontonian feels the need to break the bank in constructing this arena. I aspire to be wealthy too, but I prefer my wealthy guys modest and down to earth a la Warren Buffet vs garish and tacky like Donald Trump. He lives in our World, and if he wants his arena built in that World with our money maybe a reality check is in order in terms of the design. If you can't build something great with half a billion dollars, somthing ain't right.

I always found it interesting that a guy who's borderline paranoid about public attention built that house. Just down the street from where I grew up. The whole neighborhood was inconvenienced for at least two years with the construction. Pissed everybody off to no end.

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#48 ubermiguel
September 13 2012, 08:57PM
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David S wrote:

Dude. I've got nothing against you but your assumptions about social media transparency and open disclosure are either naive or extremely short-sighted.

A guy like Katz has bankers like that on speed-dial. Finance deals are brokered behind closed doors all the time, and not surprisingly, nobody talks about it. The fact that he hasn't accessed them speaks to the reality that he believes he can finance his $100M contribution using the city's far better lending rates. In fact, this deal may only be feasible for him by using those rates. It's a Private-Public-Partnership or PPP.

I know Wanye comes off like sort of a goof around here but I can vouch for the fact he's actually a pretty bright business guy. You'd be wise to take him a bit more seriously.

Nothing against you either. I appreciate you're keeping it measured and not getting personal.

100% agree with you, no doubt Katz can get private financing (as opposed to building partnerships which was more where I was going with that). I know he wants to use gov't money because it's cheaper. But you saying "this deal may only be feasible for him by using those rates" is kind of what I'm getting at: rink = bad business. If I can only afford to buy a house with a 0.0001% mortgage, I can't really afford that house.

No doubt Wanye's a sharp guy. I love his businesses and will continue to support them. But I tend to trust what I read for myself and it's stuff like the links below that have me convinced rink = bad business:

http://www.uwlax.edu/faculty/anderson/micro-principles/stadiums.pdf

"independent work on the economic impact of stadiums and arenas has uniformly found that there is no statistically significant positive correlation between sports facility construction and economic development. These results stand in distinct contrast to the promotional studies that are typically done by consulting firms under the hire of teams or local chambers of commerce supporting facility development."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2257.1990.tb00513.x/pdf

"The evidence presented here is that the presence of a new or renovated stadium has an uncertain impact on the levels of personal income and possibly a negative impact on local development relative to the region"

I wish more Oilers fans would just admit, "I want a new rink because it's frickin' cool!" The business arguments are endlessly debated because they're endlessly debatable.

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#49 OilClog
September 13 2012, 09:00PM
Trash it!
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Give me 3 popsicle sticks, a Eberle rookie card, 6 stitches from Hall's head (you know he keeps them in a jar for show and tell, and daily reminders he owes Potter one) and I will build the most state of the art arena one has seen! EVAAAAAA!

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#50 book¡e
September 13 2012, 09:07PM
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I don't understand this at all.

Why don't they just send Ralph Krueger in to talk to City Council and just get this thing done.

As soon as he is done there, put him on a plane to New York to talk to Gary and the NHLPA and get that done too.

Why isn't anyone making use of Krueger on these issues - stop pissing around with lawyers and press agents when you have the man?

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