Jay Bouwmeester traded to St. Louis

Jonathan Willis
April 01 2013 07:18PM

Photo: Resolute Wikimedia

According to multiple media reports, the Calgary Flames have sent veteran defenceman Jay Bouwmeester to the St. Louis Blues. Coming back is a conditional first round draft pick, as well as prospects Mark Cundari and Reto Berra.

The Return

The conditional first round draft choice. As per James Mirtle, the first round pick will be a 2013 selection if St. Louis makes the playoffs this season, and a 2014 pick if the Blues fail to make the playoffs. Should the first round pick be deferred to 2014, Calgary will also receive the Blues' fourth-round selection in 2013.

Mark Cundari. The soon to be 23-year old Cundari was never drafted, but plays a well-rounded game - he has ability with the puck, doesn't back down physically, and is strong positionally. The problem is that he's undersized for the position, listed at 5'10", 210 pounds. He's a decent prospect, but hardly a blue-chipper. The good news is that he's good enough to play regularly in the AHL right now.

Reto Berra. A fourth-round draft pick in 2006. Berra is likely best-known in North America for his work representing Switzerland at the World Juniors (he also played at the 2012 World Championships). He's spent the last few seasons in the top Swiss league, posting mediocre numbers (he has a 0.906 save percentage this season). The good news is that he's interested in coming to North America; the bad news is that based on his work overseas he may not have much of an impact.  

It's a very similar package to what the Flames received for Jarome Iginla: a first round draft pick and a pair of middling prospects that will fill depth roles but cannot be regarded as high-end acquisitions.

The Context

Bouwmeester led the Flames in ice-time this season, averaging 25:09 per game; he also led the Flames' blue line in quality of competition and the percentage of shifts started in the defensive zone. Elliotte Friedman tweets that the Blues will assume responsibility for the entirety of Bouwmeester's contract, saving the Flames $6.6 million dollars next season and slightly more ($6.68 million) in cap hit. 

However, on the same day that Buffalo dealt Robyn Regehr - older, not signed for next season, and averaging almost 7:00 less per game - for a pair of second round draft picks, the return for a legitimate top-pairing NHL defenceman like Bouwmeester seems underwhelming. With the additional context of the Douglas Murray trade (again, for two second round picks) days earlier, that feeling is reinforced. 

In the defence of Flames management, Bouwmeester's no-trade clause doubtless limited the number of teams they could negotiate with. Even so, this is clearly a trade that favours St. Louis - in a fight for their playoff lives, they managed to add a top-pairing defenceman for what is likely to be a middling first round pick and two guys they likely won't ever miss. 

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#101 Chris Fairfield
April 01 2013, 09:03PM
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Colin wrote:

GOOD NEWS, Colorado won and we're gonna lose, so while Feaster stockpiles draft picks that are gonna spend four years in College at least our own pick should be high.

Colorado lost and we're gonna lose, c'mon.

Not that anything Flameswise matters at this point but Kipper's value took another gut punch tonight as he allowed 3 goals on 6 shots, MacBackup is in.

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#102 Colin
April 01 2013, 09:03PM
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FireOnIce wrote:

Uh... Colorado lost 3-2 to Detroit tonight.

UGH, yeah I read that wrong, that wasn't good, well, whatever, we're still gonna lose so not like we are gaining on them.

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#103 TheoForever
April 01 2013, 09:05PM
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Up to this point I was defending Feaster but there is no point anymore. If the problem was the huge JBo contract then Flames should have agreed to eat some of the cap as I believe the new CBA allows for. ME hates giving up money, so I’m sure KK told Feaster not to do it, if that’s not the case then Feaster is a complete idiot. Either way those that wanted a rebuild congratulations. I hope you guys realize it will take 4-6 years before Flames will be worth cheering for and that’s only if we are lucky.

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#104 beloch
April 01 2013, 09:06PM
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Let's assume for a moment that Feaster hasn't gone insane. It's hard, but let's try. What did this trade do?

1. *Massive* salary dump. The Flames should have no trouble with being cap compliant now, and might even have the space to sign/trade for a stud in a market that may favor buyers. (This summer, teams may be willing to let good players go just so they can squeak in under the cap.)

2. Another first round pick for this summer's draft... maybe. Does Feaster have massive wood for >2 players expected to go in the mid to early first round? This move gets him another pick and will almost certainly bump the Flames own pick up a few places.

3. Trading J-Bo and failing to bring back a blue-line prospect or depth player means Feaster might want the team to tank for picks next season too. Yeah... A few more trades like this might do the job.

No sir. I don't like it!

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#105 ?
April 01 2013, 09:07PM
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Kypreos wrote:

I would sooner have a first in a deep draft and two prospects for Leopold and 3rd.

All day long baby!

Uhhh.... if you are dumb enough to believe Bouwmeester is worth Leopold and a 3rd, I feel bad for you. Do you know how to read? The Flames gave that up for his negotiating rights. Not him, per say. Big difference dude.

And Bouwmeester is a legit number 2. Plays against the other teams top line. Good shutdown guy. I would rather have a top pairiexcellent skating, world-class d-man than a mid 1st round pick, a mediocre prospect, and the Swiss version of Joey Macdonald.

All day long baby :)

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#106 Stockley
April 01 2013, 09:08PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Heard parts of Feaster's interview? Did he even address why they didn't eat cap space?

On another note: just because most fans saw the need for a rebuild doesn't mean they wanted it done in sh!t fashion so can we please stop with that idiotic line of faulty logic?

Nothing this franchise has done this season has made any sense at all. They throw Irving to the wolves and then seem surprised when he fails. They sign Taylor to a NHL deal only to barely give him a shot and re-banish him to the AHL. They crush the confidence of our best player. They staple their prized Euro-signing to the bench or press box. They trade away their captain and minute-munching defenceman for prospects few have heard of.

That's not even bringing up the ROR atrocity or their complete mishandling of their 1st rounder last year when this team is in no position to take such a risk on a player who may or may not pan out.

They did it all with a smile, with that smug "we're smarter than you" attitude.

What a bunch of used car salesmen. The problem is many in the fan base are passionate hockey fans and we know our hockey. There is a justified sense of outrage in the flames nation because they treat us like we're idiots and we should just buy into all the &%^$ they keep feeding us and ask for seconds.

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#107 Colin
April 01 2013, 09:08PM
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I don't know how everyone here views Zbynek Michalek, but essetially the bouwmeester trade is just slightly better than that one(Harrison Ruopp, Marc Cheverie, 2012 third round pick), the only differnce being the Coyotes gave up a 3rd. So apparenlty the difference between Zbynek Michalek and Jay Bouwmeester is moving up from the 3rd round to the late first.

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#108 FireOnIce
April 01 2013, 09:08PM
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@the-wolf

Part of Feaster's interview, via Nick Cotsonika: ‏

"Feaster on Fan 960: "It's on me. ... Maybe I wasn't as intellectually honest as I needed to be." Said he wouldn't make that mistake again."

That was regarding the state of the team the last few years. The Flames ownership/MGMT is now retracting/revising all their previous comments about being "one piece away from a Cup".

Now they're saying they "didn't assess the situation properly". Liars. Intellectual dishonesty.

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#109 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 09:09PM
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Cannot find either guy in the Sports Forecaster and they list 8 goalies for the Blues!

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#110 Stockley
April 01 2013, 09:10PM
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beloch wrote:

Let's assume for a moment that Feaster hasn't gone insane. It's hard, but let's try. What did this trade do?

1. *Massive* salary dump. The Flames should have no trouble with being cap compliant now, and might even have the space to sign/trade for a stud in a market that may favor buyers. (This summer, teams may be willing to let good players go just so they can squeak in under the cap.)

2. Another first round pick for this summer's draft... maybe. Does Feaster have massive wood for >2 players expected to go in the mid to early first round? This move gets him another pick and will almost certainly bump the Flames own pick up a few places.

3. Trading J-Bo and failing to bring back a blue-line prospect or depth player means Feaster might want the team to tank for picks next season too. Yeah... A few more trades like this might do the job.

No sir. I don't like it!

To me any deal with the Blues should have started and ended with Ty Rattie. If they don't want to play ball you wait, you deal Bo at the draft. There was no pressure to move Bo at this point in time. So why rush the deal? Why take what is under any standard of measurement an inferior deal?

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#111 Stockley
April 01 2013, 09:11PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Time to do a 5 Minutes of Hate article on Feaster.

I think he deserves far more than 5 minutes. Same goes for Ken King, Murray Edwards, John Weisbrod and anyone else involved in this outright stupidity.

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#112 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 09:12PM
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FireOnIce wrote:

Part of Feaster's interview, via Nick Cotsonika: ‏

"Feaster on Fan 960: "It's on me. ... Maybe I wasn't as intellectually honest as I needed to be." Said he wouldn't make that mistake again."

That was regarding the state of the team the last few years. The Flames ownership/MGMT is now retracting/revising all their previous comments about being "one piece away from a Cup".

Now they're saying they "didn't assess the situation properly". Liars. Intellectual dishonesty.

Thanks for that.

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#113 FireOnIce
April 01 2013, 09:13PM
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@Stockley

Agreed re: Rattie. STL badly needs the help and Feaster should've seen that. When the phone rang, his first two words should have been Ty and Rattie.

I would be okay with this deal if it was Ty Rattie and a 5th rounder for JBo. Or 1-for-1.

JBo + 3rd for Rattie + 5th. Rattie + 6th. Not JBo for a pile of magic beans, a half-eaten bag of chocolate pretzels, and the keys to a 2005 Kia Sorento.

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#114 Emir
April 01 2013, 09:14PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Time to do a 5 Minutes of Hate article on Feaster.

BEST IDEA EVER

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#115 ?
April 01 2013, 09:14PM
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@the-wolf

I don't know.... it'd have to be an extended version. Call it 20 Minutes of Hate :)

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#116 Hank Williams
April 01 2013, 09:15PM
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The Flames are in this position.

Imagine you are a real estate speculator and you are pushing up values and buying all of the available properties up. All of your competition is saying you are crazy. quite often this person pushes the values up and everyone else follows along even though they swore that they would not. But sometimes the aggressive speculator falls on his own sword. when this happens in my experience there is a lack of sympathy and also a vacuum of bids.Competitors keep there hands in their pockets and let them fry.

This is where our Flames are now. after years of pushing the trade market: ie Jokinen and JayBoumeester all in our honest quest for the Stanley Cup,boy have we fallen on our sword.

The Flames will continue to fire sale until all tradable assets are liquidated.

this is how it will be

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#117 Kypreos
April 01 2013, 09:15PM
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? wrote:

Uhhh.... if you are dumb enough to believe Bouwmeester is worth Leopold and a 3rd, I feel bad for you. Do you know how to read? The Flames gave that up for his negotiating rights. Not him, per say. Big difference dude.

And Bouwmeester is a legit number 2. Plays against the other teams top line. Good shutdown guy. I would rather have a top pairiexcellent skating, world-class d-man than a mid 1st round pick, a mediocre prospect, and the Swiss version of Joey Macdonald.

All day long baby :)

They gave up nothing to get him in the first place. They resigned him before he became an unrestricted free agent.

Get your facts straight!

Mid first round pick in a deep draft and prospects.

like I said before.

Take it. The best they could do with a high cap hit.

All day long baby!

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#118 negrilcowboy
April 01 2013, 09:15PM
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can't wait to hear robert tonight.

feaster,king and company should be evangalists, they sure do think they are above the masses with their oratorial skills.

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#119 Stockley
April 01 2013, 09:16PM
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FireOnIce wrote:

Agreed re: Rattie. STL badly needs the help and Feaster should've seen that. When the phone rang, his first two words should have been Ty and Rattie.

I would be okay with this deal if it was Ty Rattie and a 5th rounder for JBo. Or 1-for-1.

JBo + 3rd for Rattie + 5th. Rattie + 6th. Not JBo for a pile of magic beans, a half-eaten bag of chocolate pretzels, and the keys to a 2005 Kia Sorento.

They'll just botch the 1st rounder anyhow. Draft some college or high school kid few have heard of. I would have been much happier with some prospects who had an honest shot of making the NHL. Rattie could have at the very least reunited with Baertschi and helped the kid regain some lost confidence.

Not that any of that matters because if they did make the dance Hartley would just make them watch from the press box or give them 5 minutes a game on a line with McGrattan and Begin.

All hope is lost. The battle is lost. I don't think Gandalf will arrive at the last moment with a contingent of Rohan cavalry to save the day.

...great. I'm so agitated my inner nerd just came out to play.

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#120 SeanCharles
April 01 2013, 09:18PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

"Show me a trade where a top prospect was involved?"

2011/02/09 Anaheim Ducks traded Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul and a conditional fourth-round draft pick in 2013 to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Francois Beauchemin.

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#121 ?
April 01 2013, 09:19PM
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Feaster makes D.Sutter respectable. Sutter may have gone cookoo at the end of his tenure, but he made some pretty damn shrewd deals (Kipper, Lanks, Bourque, etc.) Feaster has just been shipping out former stars for subpar returns and acquiring goons and AHLers.

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#122 Chris Fairfield
April 01 2013, 09:20PM
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? wrote:

I don't know.... it'd have to be an extended version. Call it 20 Minutes of Hate :)

How about a truncated season of hate?

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#123 Ted
April 01 2013, 09:23PM
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Stockley wrote:

They'll just botch the 1st rounder anyhow. Draft some college or high school kid few have heard of. I would have been much happier with some prospects who had an honest shot of making the NHL. Rattie could have at the very least reunited with Baertschi and helped the kid regain some lost confidence.

Not that any of that matters because if they did make the dance Hartley would just make them watch from the press box or give them 5 minutes a game on a line with McGrattan and Begin.

All hope is lost. The battle is lost. I don't think Gandalf will arrive at the last moment with a contingent of Rohan cavalry to save the day.

...great. I'm so agitated my inner nerd just came out to play.

This is the problem with the trade. The draft pick is just a educated guess and who knows what it will become. The Flames have drafted poorly and in years past and with the exception of a few recent picks showing some promise, very few of our picks have made it to the NHL. That is why we needed a solid prospect in this deal.

Also, love the inner nerd coming out.

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#124 Kypreos
April 01 2013, 09:23PM
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The owners are making the call at the end of the day.

These are not decisions Feaster or King can make....

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#125 Jeff Lebowski
April 01 2013, 09:23PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Michalek in Ottawa.

Coyle in Minnesota.

Coyle deal was him, Setoguchi + 1st for Burns and 2nd

Michalek and Cheecho + 2nd for Heatley + 5th

JBo is not as good (in context of when in careers and production when deal made) as Burns or Heatley. Ie meaning no way he brings back that kind of return.

JBo will not net you a top prospect. If you wait until offseason one more season where JBo team not in playoffs. What does that do to trade value? What does offseason do to Philly's need for D (after injured guys get healthy).

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#126 joe
April 01 2013, 09:24PM
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Anger!

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#127 ?
April 01 2013, 09:25PM
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@Kypreos

Holy jumping. I just told u who they traded to get him, you are losing it. They traded for his negotiating rights, and then signed him before he turned UFA.

2nd of all, 2 crappy prospects and a first rounder that may never turn into an NHLer are NOT worth the Flames best defenceman, no matter how high his cap hit is. His luck has turned, hes on pace for a 15 goal season over a full year. Terrific 2 way dman. If the Sharks deal Dan Boyle they will get a better return, I guarantee you, and he's got a high cap hit aswell, and he's old. If that's the best they could do with a player with a high cap hit in your mind, watch what Boyle gets SJ. Then you can come back and say you were wrong, that this was NOT the best they could have done "with a high cap hit". Glad your not running the team, because you'd be messing this team up with your buddy Feaster "all day long baby".

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#128 Emir
April 01 2013, 09:28PM
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Oh there was an update on the trade as another asset was coming back that wasnt initially reported.

jay gets an all you can eat buffet for life whenever he is in st Louis.

can we do a PhotoShop contest making fun of jay? I'll pony up the prize if I have to.

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#129 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 09:29PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

"Show me a trade where a top prospect was involved?"

2011/02/09 Anaheim Ducks traded Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul and a conditional fourth-round draft pick in 2013 to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Francois Beauchemin.

Never thought the day would come that I'd be wishing Brian Burke was our GM. That example just goes to show that every other GM in the league knows Feaster is an easy target.

Hey! Remember when it was the reverse and Cliff Fletcher was handing Ron Caron his @$$ in trades between Calgary and St Louis?

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#130 Stockley
April 01 2013, 09:30PM
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Emir wrote:

Oh there was an update on the trade as another asset was coming back that wasnt initially reported.

jay gets an all you can eat buffet for life whenever he is in st Louis.

can we do a PhotoShop contest making fun of jay? I'll pony up the prize if I have to.

Given all the stupid personnel moves Feaster has made this year is it really necessary to attack the man over his weight? I think he's given us plenty of fodder without reverting back to childish name calling like we're still 4th graders.

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#131 Stockley
April 01 2013, 09:31PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Never thought the day would come that I'd be wishing Brian Burke was our GM. That example just goes to show that every other GM in the league knows Feaster is an easy target.

Hey! Remember when it was the reverse and Cliff Fletcher was handing Ron Caron his @$$ in trades between Calgary and St Louis?

I think Fletcher was the last GM we had who was worth a damn. Everyone since has been a damn clown.

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#132 Emir
April 01 2013, 09:32PM
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@Stockley

I disagree.

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#133 the-wolf
April 01 2013, 09:35PM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

Coyle deal was him, Setoguchi + 1st for Burns and 2nd

Michalek and Cheecho + 2nd for Heatley + 5th

JBo is not as good (in context of when in careers and production when deal made) as Burns or Heatley. Ie meaning no way he brings back that kind of return.

JBo will not net you a top prospect. If you wait until offseason one more season where JBo team not in playoffs. What does that do to trade value? What does offseason do to Philly's need for D (after injured guys get healthy).

Not sure how that helps your argument. JBo is legit 2D top shutdown, 30 minute/night guy. Even if you feel he's not as good as those other main pieces, that doesn't justify the return on this one.

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#134 Captain Ron
April 01 2013, 09:37PM
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TheoForever wrote:

Up to this point I was defending Feaster but there is no point anymore. If the problem was the huge JBo contract then Flames should have agreed to eat some of the cap as I believe the new CBA allows for. ME hates giving up money, so I’m sure KK told Feaster not to do it, if that’s not the case then Feaster is a complete idiot. Either way those that wanted a rebuild congratulations. I hope you guys realize it will take 4-6 years before Flames will be worth cheering for and that’s only if we are lucky.

There wasn't much to cheer for before these trades happened either. So it's going to suck but maybe better late than never.

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#135 Robert Johnson
April 01 2013, 09:39PM
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Wow....the Flames Front Office is even more bonkers than I even imagined.

How far has this team fallen?

They were +1.5 dogs ATS and +143 on the Money Line tonight.....Yikes!

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#136 Chris Fairfield
April 01 2013, 09:40PM
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Frustrated beyond words.

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#137 Primo
April 01 2013, 09:41PM
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I do understand the hesitation for any team to take on that huge salary at a time when the cap will be reduced. Regardless I am dissapointed that Ty Rattie was not coming this way.

Feaster and Weisbrod will make there own bed. How long they sleep in it will be determined by them in short order!

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#138 Franko J
April 01 2013, 09:42PM
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On the bright side 2 contract spaces available with 14 million in cap space for the summer.

With the trade consummated and finalized. Who should the Flames target {based on St. Louis making the playoffs} in the draft?

With Feaster and Wiesbrod at the helm: Choices are:

Jt Compher Steve Santini Ryan Hartman Robert Hagg

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#139 T&A4Flames
April 01 2013, 09:45PM
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Captain Ron wrote:

This sure seems underwhelming. Never heard of these two guys.

Why another goalie? Maybe they are living by the "if you throw enough against the wall sooner or later something should stick" rule???

When did we trade for a wall??

;)

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#140 Sincity1976
April 01 2013, 09:46PM
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah ..... sob

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#141 Colin
April 01 2013, 09:47PM
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Franko J wrote:

On the bright side 2 contract spaces available with 14 million in cap space for the summer.

With the trade consummated and finalized. Who should the Flames target {based on St. Louis making the playoffs} in the draft?

With Feaster and Wiesbrod at the helm: Choices are:

Jt Compher Steve Santini Ryan Hartman Robert Hagg

2 contract spaces are not available acutally, they are for now, but by the summer they won't be, they are going to be needed to sign all this marginal talent destined to Abbotsford that Feaster has acquired for this team. If he keeps trading like he is, we are gonna be at 48 contracts before the draft even starts.

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#142 SeanCharles
April 01 2013, 09:53PM
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the-wolf wrote:

Never thought the day would come that I'd be wishing Brian Burke was our GM. That example just goes to show that every other GM in the league knows Feaster is an easy target.

Hey! Remember when it was the reverse and Cliff Fletcher was handing Ron Caron his @$$ in trades between Calgary and St Louis?

Too young for that great era of Flames hockey.

Side note: I think all this cap space, especially after kipper goes, will be valuable. Clear contracts at top, cap is dropping....could have liberties other teams won't due to cap constraints.....a lot of new blood and cap space could end up in our favor....

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#143 Stockley
April 01 2013, 09:54PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

Too young for that great era of Flames hockey.

Side note: I think all this cap space, especially after kipper goes, will be valuable. Clear contracts at top, cap is dropping....could have liberties other teams won't due to cap constraints.....a lot of new blood and cap space could end up in our favor....

They will have to overpay anyone to come play for this atrocious mess of a team at this point. They'll need the cap space just to sign marginal talent at this point.

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#144 BurningSensation
April 01 2013, 10:01PM
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Stockley wrote:

Nothing this franchise has done this season has made any sense at all. They throw Irving to the wolves and then seem surprised when he fails. They sign Taylor to a NHL deal only to barely give him a shot and re-banish him to the AHL. They crush the confidence of our best player. They staple their prized Euro-signing to the bench or press box. They trade away their captain and minute-munching defenceman for prospects few have heard of.

That's not even bringing up the ROR atrocity or their complete mishandling of their 1st rounder last year when this team is in no position to take such a risk on a player who may or may not pan out.

They did it all with a smile, with that smug "we're smarter than you" attitude.

What a bunch of used car salesmen. The problem is many in the fan base are passionate hockey fans and we know our hockey. There is a justified sense of outrage in the flames nation because they treat us like we're idiots and we should just buy into all the &%^$ they keep feeding us and ask for seconds.

In the order you raised them:

- Irving wasn't 'thrown to the wolves', he was given one last shot to prove he could be an NHL goaltender after being a dog's breakfast from the day he was drafted.

- Taylor was only signed to an NHL deal because Kipper got hurt, and Irving sucked.

- Crushed the confidence of our best player...which would be...?

- Baertschi underperformed, got hurt, and was reassigned to the AHL to give him high end minutes. That's what you do with developing players.

- They traded the Captain and JBo for 1st rnd picks in the deepest draft in a decade, and collected 4 prospects in the bargain. Two of which have taken their teams to the frozen four NCAA tourney, and another who was above average as a rookie in the AHL Berra is well regarded by scouts (but frankly, I had never heard of him).

- The ROR signing was a win. We forced Colorado to keep their RFA at a price that will choke their cap space and internal budget. Cost us nothing.

- I for one have defended the Jankowski_Seiloff move from the word go. Better to draft a possible #1 center than the guarnateed 3rd liner Buffalo took with our pick.

But once again, the same people (I'm looking at you The_Wolf) who bitched and moaned that we needed a rebuild are the first to bitch and moan when they get one.

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#145 Colin
April 01 2013, 10:06PM
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SeanCharles wrote:

Too young for that great era of Flames hockey.

Side note: I think all this cap space, especially after kipper goes, will be valuable. Clear contracts at top, cap is dropping....could have liberties other teams won't due to cap constraints.....a lot of new blood and cap space could end up in our favor....

A lot of cap space could end up in favour huh.....

Look at this list of UFA to be: http://capgeek.com/free-agents/ That list is a list of grabage and go no-wheres with a tiny sprinkling of half decent player. Any player over 30 on that list needs to be ingnored because for the next 3-4 years this team is not going anywhere of note, so by the time this team is ready to compete that player is around 35 and ready to be sent packing again.

Looking at the list for 24-28 somethings, there isn't a whole lot to right home about, I guess there is Brunner and a couple others, but really, what exactly are the Flames gonna offer other than a giant wasteful contract that is gonna entire the kinda guys we need.

The cap space is useless at the start of a rebuild, unless maybe there was a true franchise player in there we could lock up, but there isn't/.

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#146 Kypreos
April 01 2013, 10:07PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

In the order you raised them:

- Irving wasn't 'thrown to the wolves', he was given one last shot to prove he could be an NHL goaltender after being a dog's breakfast from the day he was drafted.

- Taylor was only signed to an NHL deal because Kipper got hurt, and Irving sucked.

- Crushed the confidence of our best player...which would be...?

- Baertschi underperformed, got hurt, and was reassigned to the AHL to give him high end minutes. That's what you do with developing players.

- They traded the Captain and JBo for 1st rnd picks in the deepest draft in a decade, and collected 4 prospects in the bargain. Two of which have taken their teams to the frozen four NCAA tourney, and another who was above average as a rookie in the AHL Berra is well regarded by scouts (but frankly, I had never heard of him).

- The ROR signing was a win. We forced Colorado to keep their RFA at a price that will choke their cap space and internal budget. Cost us nothing.

- I for one have defended the Jankowski_Seiloff move from the word go. Better to draft a possible #1 center than the guarnateed 3rd liner Buffalo took with our pick.

But once again, the same people (I'm looking at you The_Wolf) who bitched and moaned that we needed a rebuild are the first to bitch and moan when they get one.

I could not agree more.

Dank

You should pay attention as well....

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#147 Stockley
April 01 2013, 10:11PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

In the order you raised them:

- Irving wasn't 'thrown to the wolves', he was given one last shot to prove he could be an NHL goaltender after being a dog's breakfast from the day he was drafted.

- Taylor was only signed to an NHL deal because Kipper got hurt, and Irving sucked.

- Crushed the confidence of our best player...which would be...?

- Baertschi underperformed, got hurt, and was reassigned to the AHL to give him high end minutes. That's what you do with developing players.

- They traded the Captain and JBo for 1st rnd picks in the deepest draft in a decade, and collected 4 prospects in the bargain. Two of which have taken their teams to the frozen four NCAA tourney, and another who was above average as a rookie in the AHL Berra is well regarded by scouts (but frankly, I had never heard of him).

- The ROR signing was a win. We forced Colorado to keep their RFA at a price that will choke their cap space and internal budget. Cost us nothing.

- I for one have defended the Jankowski_Seiloff move from the word go. Better to draft a possible #1 center than the guarnateed 3rd liner Buffalo took with our pick.

But once again, the same people (I'm looking at you The_Wolf) who bitched and moaned that we needed a rebuild are the first to bitch and moan when they get one.

Meant to say crushed the confidence of our best prospect. The prized Euro signing would be Cervenka.

Taylor played admirably enough in his second game and then was summarily banished back to the A so Kipper could come back and prove once again that he's not the goalie he once was. I know few goalies could put up solid numbers behind this shoddy defensive play but he's been awful.

The ROR signing was a PR nightmare on almost every level. Don't try to play it off like a calculated risk to force a rival team to screw up their payroll. They didn't get the player they coveted, they dealt with some ugly fallout that made them look incompetent.

There is no guarantee the Blues make the playoffs, even with Bo in the lineup. In which case the Flames get a middling pick in a far less deep and impressive 2014 draft and an iffy 4th rounder this year.

I'm not claiming to be the most educated hockey guy on the planet or by the same token the most astute armchair GM alive. But I do read a lot of hockey, I watch a lot of hockey. The fact Calgary traded their two best assets and I'd never heard of any of the 4 prospects coming back before worries me a little. I forgive the Iggy trade, they did right by the captain and he got to choose his final destination. What was the rush in moving Bouwmeester? Hard to believe this deal or a deal similar to it wouldn't have still been waiting at the draft or over the summer.

You seem to be looking at this team with rose-colored glasses just as I'm sure you think I'm being overly negative and pessimistic. Given our opinions seem to be polar opposites I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I hope your optimism prove to be more true to life than my pessimism. Otherwise we're all in for some very ugly years ahead.

...winter is coming.

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#148 Kypreos
April 01 2013, 10:12PM
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? wrote:

Holy jumping. I just told u who they traded to get him, you are losing it. They traded for his negotiating rights, and then signed him before he turned UFA.

2nd of all, 2 crappy prospects and a first rounder that may never turn into an NHLer are NOT worth the Flames best defenceman, no matter how high his cap hit is. His luck has turned, hes on pace for a 15 goal season over a full year. Terrific 2 way dman. If the Sharks deal Dan Boyle they will get a better return, I guarantee you, and he's got a high cap hit aswell, and he's old. If that's the best they could do with a player with a high cap hit in your mind, watch what Boyle gets SJ. Then you can come back and say you were wrong, that this was NOT the best they could have done "with a high cap hit". Glad your not running the team, because you'd be messing this team up with your buddy Feaster "all day long baby".

WOW

"Terrific 2 way dman" Throw away your glasses dude.

Last year you were probably one of those screaming to trade him for a bag of pucks.

The key was the first round pick....

All day long baby!

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#149 Ken V.
April 01 2013, 10:13PM
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Hartley wishes he'd taken job in MTL about now

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#150 ?
April 01 2013, 10:15PM
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@Kypreos

Burning Sensation fails to recognize how screwed the Flames really were with the ROR deal. Great move on paper, but Feaster needs to do his due diligence.

The 4 prospects in the Iggy/Bouw deals are very underwhelming. No one had heard of them, and that's not a good thing.

Taylor is the best goalie that's played for the Flames this year, and he got 2 games. Meritocracy my bum.

The other points I agree with.

But these deals are underwhelming compared with the other deals this year. I dont care how high JBOuws cap hit was, Philly and Det are not cheap, budget teams. They have lots of money available. When broken guys like Murray and Regehr get marginally lesser returns than JBouw, who is ten times the dman, it makes some fans angry. Got a right to be angry. Mismanagement of assets.

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